TSOL

LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF FREE DOWNLOADS

TSOL’s Jack Grisham talks about the new record designed to help those in need
True Sounds of Liberty emerged from Orange County in 1979 as part of the birth of the California punk scene. Along with bands like Black Flag, Social Distortion, and the Circle Jerks, TSOL was an influential group, essential in the development of the new, exciting music that was rising from the West Coast underground. Remembered for their early political messages in songs like, “World War III,” “Abolish Government,” and “Superficial Love,” they gained larger recognition after their appearance in Penelope Spheeris’s cult classic, “Suburbia.”

Jack Grisham was the band’s front man from inception, but after several shaky years left the band, which then transformed into a surf-goth-punk formula for the albums “Change Today” and “Revenge.” Influenced by the glam-metal debauchery of the lates 80s, “Hit and Run” was released and put the final nail in the coffin of an outfit that had isolated itself from its punk roots in favor of hairspray and spandex. The pain would be over soon as the band would cease to exist.
1991 saw a reunion of the original lineup with Grisham, and they released a live record on Triple X records, and then nearly a decade later, three more releases on Nitro Records: Anticop 7-inch, Dissappear LP, and Divided We Stand LP. This marked the return of the band’s classic Southern California punk sound, now a bit older and wiser. Grisham had also transformed his life of decadence and abuse, to become a personal recovery assistant, helping others with drug and alcohol dependency problems.

This year, the band, in conjunction with the Hurley clothing company, released a new album which can be downloaded for free through the Hurley website (www.hurley.com/tsol).

So why would a band release a free record? Grisham’s hopes are that fans will take a moment to check out the charities on the website and make a donation in exchange for receiving the free record. The organizations included on the site are Midnight Mission, the Orangewood Foundation, the O.C. Food Band, the Surfrider Foundation, and the SPCA.

I had the opportunity to talk with Grisham about the new release, and as the conversation varied from recording to the old days of punk to politics, the singular theme throughout is that all his efforts in life now are giving back for all that he has taken over the years.

JW: So what do you have going on this year?

JACK: We just did a record. So you know the record business is shit. It’s screwed up. It’s a mess. Especially for guys like us, because, yeah, we’ve been around for a while and our name is established, but we don’t sell like a lot of records and we don’t make a lot of money. We make enough records to just keep going and have fun in doing it. So basically the music business is just screwed up so it’s trying to find a way to use it to our advantage. What we did was we went out and we got a clothing company, Hurley, to sponsor us doing a record. They didn’t give us a lot of money. What they did was they paid for the record, they flew our guys out, because one of our guys lives in Nevada and the other one lives in Iowa. They flew them out and covered our bills for two weeks, so we got two weeks to make a record. So, we make a record and then we just give it away for free. We never see any money from them anyway. Normally it’s all tied up in record companies and just a mess. So what we did is make the record, give it away for free, and if you go the Hurley page (http://www.hurley.com/tsol/) there’s a list of my charities, people I try to support, and I put them on the download page with a video of me saying, “Hey kids, look you guys basically get a free record so if you can throw a dollar to our friends, do it.” It has a link to all our charities on there. So it’s kind of like, the clothing company is stoked because they put their name on something. We’re stoked because we get to make the record. The kids get a free record. Our charities get money, even if they throw them a buck or two, it’s great.

JW: And this is the one, “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of the Free Download.”

JACK: (laughs) Yeah…haha..It’s a brand new record and it’s actually a great record. I’ve had people who have heard it and they are saying I can’t believe you’re giving this away. I’ve known Bob Hurley for years and I know Nike is the parent company, and people will say their human rights are shit for Nike and that kind of crap, but the guys at Hurley have been really good for the communities around here, a lot of high school programs and stuff. So, I didn’t have a problem teaming up with them and the way I look at it, especially the way things are now, if kids can get money and a place to sleep, get a fucking meal, get taken care of, it’s like I don’t give a shit where the money comes from.

JW: No, that totally sounds like an awesome endeavor. You know some kids will go there and go, “Ahh…I got a free record and I didn’t give anything,” but a lot of people will go there in the like mindset of the punk rock community and be like, “what’s a dollar?”

JACK: Exactly and some people are like, “Well, why would these guys who are supposedly anarchists or whatever hooking up with a corporation?” I could sit back and say “fuck you, we’re not going to do that” and then kids at the Orangewood Children’s Home and the Midnight Mission, then those people aren’t getting served. You see what I’m saying? So, it’s actually kind of hardcore socialism. You know what I mean. It’s like do this, do this, do this, we give this, and then everybody is scratching each other’s back.

JW: And we’re in a different age than when you guys started this back in the 80s. Coming into 2009, we have got to find ways to make Corporate America work for us in a way that we can help the causes that benefit us and the people that need to be helped out.

JACK: Exactly. You’re totally right. It’s really easy being idealistic when you got a warm place to sleep and food in your belly. But some of these things, like the Orangewood Children’s Home, it’s for kids. It’s basically an orphanage. I mean that’s what goes on there. It’s like those kids don’t give a shit, you know, they want a bowl of oatmeal and a glass of milk. I mean they wouldn’t care if Bush was paying for it. They wouldn’t give a shit. They want a warm place to sleep, man. You go down to Midnight Mission, five or ten dollars feeds twenty guys.

JW: Politics don’t come into the equation when you’re talking about breakfast.

JACK: Not at all. Not at all. And, the people that complain are people that “have.” Guaranteed.

JW: Exactly. People bitch about higher taxes and this and that, but the point is, we have to look out for our brothers and sisters, and that’s kind of what drew us to the punk subculture in the beginning.

JACK: Right, exactly, well, at least that’s what I believe and that’s what I was taught. So, that’s what we’re doing, and so far it’s already worked. Some of those people have already got a good amount of money so far, so it’s a success.

JW: So when did this post?

JACK: It’s already up. We actually did live video so people were able to watch us record the whole record. It was live-streaming video up while we were in the studio and you could watch us arguing and shit. I mean it was basically streaming video from start to finish. It was cool. I would be getting emails from kids in Brazil, Finland, Japan, Alaska, you know, all over the place. I was getting emails saying, “Hey, take it easy on the bass player, he’s getting ready to snap.”

JW: That’s awesome.

JACK: (laughs) It was pretty funny. “Jack, you’re an asshole.” Just all that kind of shit.

JW: It’s kind of like the film crews after they shoot the scenes for the movie and they go back and watch the rough cut, but your viewers of the rough cut are your fans.

JACK: The whole thing was rough cut. Even when we were doing vocals, which if you’re like a vocalist, that’s a bitch and a fucking nightmare, man. There’s like no music. When you’re doing the vocals, they’re not hearing any music, just hearing you go “yeah…woah..yeah,” just hearing it with nothing.

JW: (sarcastically) I’m sure you got a lot of positive comments about that then?

JACK: The kids were stoked about the record. I’d say out of ten songs, there’s probably six that are really good, which is good for a record of ten songs. You can’t expect every song on a record to be great.

JW: So you’re pretty happy with the output from the session?

JACK: Yeah, especially because from start to finish, I’m talking starting with zero songs, not even an idea for a song, we got together, wrote a record, recorded it, and released it. Witihin two weeks. Plus, we did it live so everyone could watch.

JW: And that’s the introspective that fans don’t get to see, the creative process from beginning to end. They see the final product after it’s been mixed and mastered.

JACK: Right, and it sounds all nice and everything. What they got over the air was completely raw, uncut, listening to it right then.

JW: So now that this is out there and available for the kids and the fans, what’s the future for you guys this year? Are you going to do some tours, some local tours? What’s the plan?

JACK: Well, we’re getting ready to do a little, quick tour but we just do it for fun. We do it because we like playing with each other. We’ve been playing together for, shit, thirty years so it’s fun to get together but we all have families so we only go a week or two at a time.

JW: It’s not like load up into the bus and go cross country?

JACK: Yeah, I won’t do it. Like my daughter gets bummed and I’m pretty involved in the community here, so they don’t like it either. There’s a lot of people that count on me here. I do a lot of work with alcoholics and addicts, so they like me to be here. When I’m gone on tour, I’m not helping people.

JW: Tell me a little about that. Your day job now seems to come with great responsibility.

JACK: It’s a lot more personal. I mean I take 3000 calls a month on my phone. It’s like…I fucked around a lot of people. You know what I mean. I was a real prick. A lot of people said, “Oh, he was nice. He was a gentleman” and yeah, when I wanted to be I could be very nice and very kind and very giving, as long as it suited my needs. As long as I felt like it, but the minute I was crossed I turned into a real bastard. I did a lot of stuff based on “self,” so I have a lot of paying back to do. It’s not enough for me to just stop fucking people around. It’s like I have to pay back for what I’ve done and so that’s really more important to me now than selling records and being on tour.

JW: Talk about that. What was it like back in the day when you guys were doing this and you were not as comfortable in your skin as you seemingly are now?

JACK: Well, I mean it was fun (laughs). When I got into punk rock, it wasn’t for any noble causes. I was just basically a troublemaking fuck is what it is, and the music was a background for me being a basically total selfish “do-what-I-want” bastard. The only thing we did that I get upset about is we didn’t do a lot of punk-against-punk kind of violence. We figured, “Hey, this is our family” and everything I did was towards people that were against us, if that makes any sense. There were a lot of bands in the scene that I have trouble with, man, because people respect some of these guys and back then they didn’t do anything as far as I was concerned to be respected. Like, they’re real divisive, not family.

JW: And that’s what the punk scene was supposed to be about. Being united.

JACK: That’s what we thought. When I got into punk rock, I used to stop people in the street and ask them what they were into, if I’d see someone with colored hair or something. If I saw someone with dyed hair I’d say, “Hey, who do you like? What bands do you like? What are you into?” I was stoked. Stoked to see them. Then little by little it got to the point where it got real divisive. I was like, “We’re East Coast. You’re West Coast. We’re this. You’re that.” It was a real drag. It really got to be bad news and a lot of these bands, like the Bad Brains, there’s one of them. Musically, I respect those guys, great stuff musically, but some of their views were fucked. They were basically more close-minded than a lot of the people that we were supposed to be going against. I mean all that stuff that happened with the Big Boys down in Texas, you know no one mentions that anymore. The gay bashing that they did on Biscuits, the singer from the Big Boys. It was a drag, man. For people inside our own family to be treating others in our family that way, I had a problem with a lot of that.

JW: And that just isn’t unity.

JACK: I like them, you know what I’m saying. I think their music is great. We played some great shows with them. But when people look back nowadays and they speak with reverence about some of these people, it’s like, “Hey, let’s get a real handle on this. This wasn’t as great as you think it was.” When people start talking about Henry (Rollins- SOA/Black Flag) and Ian (MacKaye-Minor Threat/Fugazi) and what a great guy Ian was, I mean Ian was shit to us. When TSOL went back to play on the East Coast, Henry and Ian got together like a couple of little chicks and they basically started all this, “Oh, the skinheads in DC are going to kill TSOL,” because we had long hair and we drank and we do whatever and they were bummed on us. I mean we went back to DC with that going on and no one talks about that. That’s not mentioned. Let’s just skip all that, skip all that petty bullshit that was happening and let’s forget it. I’m all for forgetting it, but let’s also remember that it happened. Let’s really realize that these people weren’t saints you’re talking about and I don’t mean to sound bitter but it’s like I just don’t like people portraying them like such great guys when that wasn’t the case.

JW: And from what you’re saying, that goes against the whole principle of what punk rock was all about. It was about the outcasts, finding a place that felt like home, and if you can’t go into somebody else’s home and feel welcome, then what are we doing?

JACK: Exactly, and there was a lot of that really going on and I have guys coming up to me and really admiring me for being an asshole. I’m like, “Kid, you’re mistaken.” They want to hear war stories. They want to hear about me fucking people around and that’s what they like. Interview has taken a wrong turn (laughs).

JW: No, no I think that’s important for people who read this. A lot of people that will be reading this are guys like me and you that are older and have been in this for a while or the young kids who are trying to get a sense of the history and heritage of where this started and what really happened. Aside from issues within the band, did a lot of this, the tension you’re talking about, have anything to do with why you left the band.

JACK: Well, a lot of it had to do with the fact that it wasn’t fun anymore.

JW: And that’s the most important thing I’d think?

JACK: Right, exactly. It got to the point where there were some real rock star trips going on where it was like, “Dude, you’re a fucking punk! Stop it, man!” The guys were getting real rock star-ish and against what we’re supposed to be doing. Does that make sense?

JW: It totally makes sense. In the early 80s, punk rock was what it was. It was punk rock, it was from the streets, everybody was doing their own thing. As time went on, labels were catching wind of it and started signing hardcore bands and took the fun out and a lot of the bands’ output suffered, because they started putting out shit.

JACK: But even back in the day, even when people were putting out shit, it didn’t matter. I mean when they were shitty bands, because the attitude of being a family and just having fun and jumping up on stage and like, “Hey, let’s make a band” and it was like “You, me him, and who are you dude? Can you play drums? Get up here.” Just making a band and screwing around and having fun, all that got lost. All that fun got lost. Then it turned into something where, “Hey, we’re making money off this” and even later on when punk rock supposedly broke or whatever with the Offspring and Green Day and all that, then it got to the point where it was a total joke. It was like, “are you fucking kidding me with the way you guys are acting?” I had a band one time, they called me. I was playing a show and they wanted to come see me play, right. So they called up and they wanted to come down, “but can you get us through the back because we don’t want to walk through the crowd,” and I’m like, “Fuck, don’t come down. Fuck You. No.” I was just shocked with that.

JW: They were afraid they might get dirty?

JACK: Yeah, or whatever it was? Just all that kind of stuff. I mean I don’t want to sound like this. My life is great, I mean I have an unbelievably great life. I have a lot of fun and I respect a lot of people. This is just little crap that happens that we talk about sometimes.

JW: And the thing I was getting at was not that what the bands were putting out wasn’t quality, but the mindset was “we’re getting paid for this now and it doesn’t matter, we’re going to put out what the labels want to hear.”

JACK: Right. Like I played with some bands that you would say, “Oh my god, I can’t believe you played with that band.” Musically, I didn’t like what they were doing. I didn’t like it. I didn’t respect it. However, the guys in the band were so unbelievably nice. Just great and kind and no kind of attitude. I mean a couple of these bands were Top 10 bands, but the guys in the band were just nice, man. I mean it was just fun and that’s what I miss. I miss that family kind of fun, this isn’t really a business, let’s have a good time.

JW: Just getting together and playing, regardless of what you’re playing, the style, the kind of music, just getting together with people of like minds and interest and playing music. That’s the experience.

JACK: And that’s really what it’s about, and not tripping, just having a good time.

JW: Yeah. Band practice rules.

JACK: (laughs) Yeah, and see I like doing that too. Like people trip on TSOL sometimes. We don’t soundcheck, we don’t show up for soundcheck, we don’t practice, sometimes we don’t even see each other until we end up on stage. We just do it for fun. It’s like let’s just go out and have a good time.

JW: And that’s what it’s all about. That’s what it was always supposed to be about.

JACK: Yeah.

JW: And maybe that’s the lesson to everybody else. Remember, at the end of the day, we’re all doing this for a good time.

JACK: Right, and now the cool thing about it is sometimes we get the opportunity where we can pay back for how we’ve treated people. Like we take guys on the road with us, that are hurting, like guys that are maybe fresh out of rehab. We’ll take them on tour with us to just basically kind of show the, “Hey, you can have a good time here. You know, it’s O.K. Come with us. We’ll show you fun.” And now, we get to give back to some of these charities by what we’re doing.

JW: That’s an important thing to you?

JACK: Yeah…yeah, that’s all of it. I mean there is nothing else more important than that. Our whole problem as a society is that we’re selfish fucks. I mean that’s the bottom line. There’s no way around it. Everything that’s wrong with the United States or in the world today is because people make decisions based on self. Look at our politics, look at the country, look at what we’re in. I hate to say it but Malcolm X said it when Kennedy got shot. He said, “You’re chickens have come home to roost. “ This is what you guys get. This is what your society’s bred. This is what you do. This is how you turn people out. This is what you make your people. You are getting exactly what you deserve. You can look at the way people look at America these days. I mean basically think about it. Just think about what these guys have done. They basically have said, “I’m going to do this regardless of who it hurts. I don’t care about you, you, you. I’m going to make these cars. I’m going to make this move. I’m going to attack these guys.” With no thought, it’s like “Hey, what’s good for us is good for us. Everyone else can just fuck off,” and that’s basically why we’re in the position we’re in now. It all comes down to selfishness. You look at the whole mortgage system. All of that. It’s all because of selfishness.

JW: And we’re in a rough spot. It’s all going to rely on self reliance from here on in.

JACK: But, we’re in a rough spot because of our own making. We put ourselves in this position. We have done this to ourselves. No one is out to get us. We have done this.

JW: I think that pushes towards the idea that we need to unite to fix this, to make this no longer an issue where we can point the finger saying, “It’s this guy. It’s that country. It’s those people.” Like I said, back to self reliance. We have to take care of this on our own because we can’t rely on anyone else to fix our problems.

JACK: Yes, to look at ourselves and realize what the problem is, is that we are the problem and all that change is going to start with us. Just thinking of other people, realizing that there’s more people in this world than just us. I mean a lot of people don’t realize how much the Guantanamo Bay thing has really hurt us in the eyes of the world. I have a lot of friends who live in other countries and one of my friends from Australia was so bummed that we were holding those guys like that because he even said, “We look to you guys. We look to America as someone with principles,” and to see that just devastated a lot of people. I felt really bad for this guy. When he said that, it was almost like someone that I screwed around saying, “How could you do this to me?” That’s what it felt like when he said that. I was so taken back that that was something that was so important to him.

JW: We’re people in this country and we’re not the ones pulling the strings. I mean, you did not put those people in Guantanamo Bay. I didn’t put those people there. Our government did this. Granted, we elected them, but with all that’s been going on we’ve seen the masses have not agreed with the policies that our government has been doing?

JACK: Right, but they haven’t been really willing to do much about it either.

JW: What do you think we could do to change it?

JACK: I don’t think you saw the kind of protesting you saw in the 60s.

JW: This is true.

JACK: I mean you didn’t see that. You know my father was in the military but my sister and my older brother were hardcore hippies. I mean I used to read stuff about what to do in a riot when I was a kid.

JW: So Dad was pulling into port and brother and sister were out there protesting him?

JACK: Yeah, I mean it was that kind of shit. You know my sister would bring home these yuppie handbooks. Stand in the middle of a crowd, throw bottles. I mean just like craziness (laughs). But I mean you didn’t see that large scale protest like that going on.

JW: In a lot of ways, a lot of Americans are like sheep. They follow and when the get angry, they complain, and they don’t do anything and keep walking.

JACK: Right, and that’s why for me it’s like, “What can I do here at home? What can I do close by? How can I make this easier on the people around me?” That’s really been my goal. That’s it. It’s like, “O.K., let’s start here. Let’s do this. Let’s do whatever I can do within reason. Plus, let’s do whatever I can do to help others.” And that’s kind of what the goal was with this record.